③数(kazu) – more about particle で as a group

Last blog, I wrote about the way to count people and the possible usages of it.  ③数(kazu) – numbers : counting people and the usage 

This time, let's learn more about particle で and at the end, try some quizzes!
 First, see some examples. .

I went to Hawaii with my family.

- 家族で、ハワイに行きました。(kazoku de Hawaii ni ikimashita.)

We celebrate Christmas with family.

- 家族でクリスマスを祝います。(Kazoku de kurisumasu o iwaimasu)

We decided by family talk.

- 家族で話し合って、決めました。(Kazoku de hanashiatte kimemashita.)

Literally: We talked as a family and we decided (what we are gonna do.)

家族 = family　　/　　ハワイ　＝　Hawaii　　/　　クリスマス　＝　Christmas   祝う(iwau)　＝　to celebrate　　/　　話し合う(Hanashi au)　＝　to have a talk 決める(kimeru)　＝　to decide

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The examples above show that particle で indicates "do things as a family," "as a group."  And the speaker is included in this group. (of course, because when the speaker said "family", he is including himself).

 That means if you (the speaker) want to use particle で to indicate "you did something as a group," you must use an appropriate noun for the group.

 Let's me show you some appropriate nouns to use with particle で.

ひとりで ＝ alone

三人で＝three of us

- Number で＝ number of us

みんなで ＝with everyone

かぞくで ＝ with my family

会社で(kaisha de) ＝as a company's event

- this shows you can use "___で" with big group or organization like company, school, class etc... as long as they all do something together and include you as a member of the group.

学校で(gakkou de) ＝ as a school

クラスで(kurasu de) ＝ as a class event

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 Actually, when you want to say I did this and that with my friend, ともだちで sounds weird.  Because you do not belong to the group “ともだち. ” When you say "my friend is coming," you mean this paticular friend and not incruding you, right? So you should go with と(together with), or you can say say:

ともだちとみんなで ＝with my friend

 There are some cases in which the speaker won't be included in the action even though you can use particle で.

 Now see these  examples and think about the difference.

  Situation: These 2 sentences bellow (A) & (B) are both what the teacher said. Try to translate them in English.

(A) 生徒達と、博物館へ行きました。(seito tachi to hakubutsukan e ikimashita)

(B) 生徒達で、博物館へ行きました。(seito tachi de hakubutsukan e ikimashita)

Why does the answer go like this?

生徒(seito) ＝ student　　/　　生徒達(seitotachi) ＝ students　　/　　博物館(hakubutsu-kan) ＝ museum

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(A) 生徒達と、博物館へ行きました。(seito tachi to hakubutsukan e ikimashita)

-I went to the museum with my students.

(B) 生徒達で、博物館へ行きました。(seito tachi de hakubutsukan e ikimashita)

OR

(B*) 生徒達だけで、博物館へ行きました。(seito tachi dakede hakubutsukan e ikimashita)

- My students went to the museum on their own.

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(A) In this sentence,  と indicates "together with." So the teacher went to the museum with students.  You can't use で to indicate that the teacher went with the students, because the teacher does not belong to the group "students." 

(B) In this case, the teacher didn't go to the museum with the students. Those students went on their own.  However, they did something as a group, so the teacher (speaker) can use the particle で.  If you say "__だけで" as in example (B*) it sounds clearer. It means "only the ___ did something on their own." (and the speaker is not included)

  Now try some questions! Translate the following sentences into the appropriate language (English or Japanese).

  This is what a mother said.

 (1) 今日、子供達と買い物に行きました。(Kyou, kodomo tachi to kaimono ni ikimashita.)
 

 (2) 今日、子供達で買い物に行きました。(Kyou, kodomo tachi de kaimono ni ikimashita.)
 

 (3) I'm going to go on a trip as an company event next week. (trip for fun)
 

 (4) Three of us made this.
 

 (5) I intend to go to the festival with my boyfriend tonight. (Said by a girl)
 

 (6) Let's work together in a group! (to work hard / to do one's best = 頑張る(gambaru)) .

 *(1)&(2): You can't say "子供で(Kodomo de)"  if you want to use particle で as a group. 子供 is considered as singular in this case.

Child ＝ 子供(Kodomo)　/　Children ＝ 子供達(Kodomo tachi)

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 Good luck! - Miho